God Is Not a Trinity

John

Tue, 27 Jan 2015 06:12:07 -0600

Hi Smith,
You forget that 'arms' is not a person
and that 'legs' is not a person.
You are a unique person with a unique identity. You share a human nature with mankind.
I am a father, grandfather, econometrician and CPA -and a husband, but all of this is packaged into ONE unique identity called "John B"
Remember above all that 'nature' is NOT 'identity"

Blessings
John

smith

Tue, 27 Jan 2015 05:40:19 -0600

to just say a word. trinity is based on the work of God as i can just divide myself to legs, hands.... So as God divided Himself

John

Sun, 25 Jan 2015 08:02:56 -0600

Hi William
I will withdraw from this line of discussion - but would just ask you to keep asking yourself "Who was Jesu's God"?

Blessings
John

William

Sun, 25 Jan 2015 06:01:12 -0600

Good. I will stop.You know too much to learn from anyone else."They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out." (John 9:34)

John

Sat, 24 Jan 2015 22:53:29 -0600

Hi William
You just will not see my points
(i) You keep confusing 'nature;' and 'identity'
Christ has a different 'identity' to the Lord God Almighty..they are separate individual acting and thinking entities.
Christ has the "divine nature". because he has inherited it from the source i.e. his Father who is God (John 20v17)
(ii) If
Christ is God
and God is not the son
then Christ is not God

William, you ramble on giving us the traditional nonsense - just stop for a moment and use your God given intellect.
Blessings
John

William

Sat, 24 Jan 2015 13:09:13 -0600

It wasn't allegorical. The Bible plainly says He meant His body. So He was going to raise His body from the dead. Jesus did not die as God, but as a man. Only human beings die. Even angels don't die that sort of death. Have you ever wondered how unjust it would be for God to kill someone for sins He did not commit as appeared to have happened to Jesus? But no, God Himself took on human form and paid the price Himself.There is only one Saviour and that is God Himself. When Adam and Eve sinned, God did not send someone else. He came to the garden of Eden and redeemed them. That is the precedent. He always saved Israel Himself when they fell into trouble.

William

Sat, 24 Jan 2015 12:52:51 -0600

The human side of Jesus prayed to the Father i.e. the Spirit that dwelt in Him, same as I pray to the Holy Spirit in me. Jesus was the Father manifest in the FLESH (John 14:8-10;1 Tim 3:16, Matthew 9:2; Isaiah 9:6, Mat.1:23). Whom did Jesus tell us to pray to? True, He told us to pray to the Father. But He also told us to pray to Himself. Quote:"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it"(John 14:13-14). So He answers prayer. Again if they are two persons, then we have contradiction in Scripture. It goes back to the point I made at the beginning: Put a clear distinction between the HUMANITY and the DIVINITY of Jesus and everything falls into place. Jehovah was prominent throughout the OT and Jesus is prominent throughout the NT. Jehovah promised not to give His glory to anyone else "I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another..." (Isaiah 42:8).

John

Sat, 24 Jan 2015 11:31:24 -0600

Hi William
Perhaps you could consider-
(i) Who did Christ pray to? (His Father)
(ii) Who did Christ tell us to pray to?
(our Father- who is also Christ's
Father )
(per John 20 v17)

Hope this helps
God Bless
John

William

Sat, 24 Jan 2015 10:41:50 -0600

Hi John
If you read carefully what I said, Jesus in His physical, visible form was a man i.e. a human being called "the son of God". In His spirit He was 100 % God for God is a Spirit. When Jesus prayed, He was not praying as God but as a man. Only human beings pray. Angels don't pray to God (they have no reason to)as they have no needs. Angels only worship God. If angels don't pray, how could a divine being, the supposed second person of a trinity?

John

Sat, 24 Jan 2015 08:17:56 -0600

Hi Bradley
Well done on becoming at N.T.
It takes a brave soul to stand up against the derision of fearful trinitarians.
You will have found that-
(i) The Doctrine of the Trinity is not 'consistent' with reason or simple logic
(ii) All trinitarian models are not supported by scripture.

God Bless you in your search for truth.
John

admin

Sat, 24 Jan 2015 07:37:23 -0600

Bradley, I did not know that SDA started out non-Trinitarian. That's interesting. It's sad that they ended up following traditions of men.

You can find non-Trinitarian sabbath and Holy Day keepers through the following website, "http://south-africa.ucg.org/", in case you'd like to check them out.

Bradley Newall

Sat, 24 Jan 2015 00:59:35 -0600

I have recently become a non trinaterian, I became a Seventh Day Adventist believing that this church was the way. I have found that this church has backslided from its original theology. The founders of this church were all non Trinitarians. Now after 160years later the church has become ecumenical.

John

Tue, 20 Jan 2015 00:26:04 -0600

Hi William
I think one has to be very careful here!
I have not doubt that Christ was speaking allegorically when he used the word 'temple'
There are many texts, written in clear language , which argue against what you are saying.
Consider
Christ is Gods' servant (Acts 3v25 and Acts 4 v 27) whom GOD raised from the dead.
Many other verses e.g. Acts 3 verses 13-15 make the same point.
God cannot die but he can and does resurrect others.
I'd be interested to know who you think Christs God is ?!
Who did HE pray to?
Who did HE tell us to pray to?

Thank you embarking on a quest for truth. Truth is all we have in this difficult world!

Blessings
John

William

Mon, 19 Jan 2015 18:04:34 -0600

Another point to raise is: Who raised Jesus from the dead? Many would say the Father. But Jesus Himself said, Destroy this temple and I will raise it up. He also said, I have power to lay down my life and I have power to take it up again. If we are dealing with two Beings here, then there is contradiction in Scripture. Besides if someone else raised Jesus from the dead, then He did not really conquer death for us - a fundamental of the gospel. Then what about others who have ever been raised from the dead by God??? Would their rising from the dead make them saviours? Of course not !

John

Mon, 19 Jan 2015 02:55:08 -0600

Hi William
PART 2
There is another word for WORSHIP
and that is 'Latreou' (Strongs G 3000)

It is derived from the word "Latris' which means 'TO SERVE' and is usually used to describe the duties of hired servants It appears in the NT 21 times

(i) 18 times to YHWH usually in reference to rites and services offered by priests

(ii) 2 times to describe misplaced or idolatrous worship - e.g. worship of idols ( Acts 7 v 42 and 'worship of a creature other than the creator (Romans 1 v 25
(iii) In Revelation 22 v3 it is unclear who is receiving 'latreou' - but in any case don't forget (ii) above

Hope this helps with your analysis!
God Bless
John

John

Mon, 19 Jan 2015 02:37:38 -0600

Hi William,
You make some interesting points!
I would like to dwell for one moment on the use of the word 'WORSHIP'
My reply will require 2 contiguous posts

Christ received and accepted 'worship' on many occasions

The Greek word for 'worship' is 'proskyeno'(Strongs G 4352) and it literally means 'bowing before'

It is used
(i) To kiss ones hand out of reverence
(ii)To fall before
(iii)To pay homage to superiors
(a) Jewish High Priests
(b) God
(c) Christ
(d)Heavenly beings
(e) Demons
SEE NEXT POST
God Bless
John

William

Sun, 18 Jan 2015 16:46:36 -0600

You make a clear distinction between the divinity and the humanity of Jesus Christ and the trinity doctrine crumbles before you as will the Jehovah's Witness doctrine. As God Jesus accepted worship,forgave sins, cast out devils created loaves, calmed the storm etc. As a man, He prayed, ate food, slept, died, learned etc. Father, Son, Holy Spirit is the same Being revealing Himself in three stages- God mysteriously coming closer and closer until He settles in the human heart, His true abode. The church is the Body of Christ (Christ liveth in me said Paul), yet the Holy Spirit also lives in the believer. I cannot accept that two persons are living in me !

John

Thu, 08 Jan 2015 00:28:09 -0600

Dear "Lets reason' and Ishbeli
You are both absaolutely correct, and one wonders why so much effort is put into trying to separate men and women who believe in the ONE True God.
As you say the Christian Bible, and indeed the Tanakh, talk about "the Lord our God is one Lord'
One means one!!
Trinitarians try to tell one that the Hebrew word used for 'one' is 'echad'.
While it is true that 'one' can mean a single entiry or a 'multiple' entity the context make the meaning quite clear. For example are we talking about a single grape or one bunch of grapes.
The Hebrews clearly understood that God was not a 'multiple entity'.!!! That's for sure!!
There is a Hebrew word 'yashid' which means 'only one' - for example to denote an 'only son' but 'yashid'
is never used in discussing the Lord God almighty.!!
I simply subscribe to the words used in Mark Chapter 12 verses 29-35.
I do not believe in the Triniy
Blessings
John

ishbeli

Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:49:55 -0600

What did the early Christians believe?
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Timothy 2:5

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Corinthians 8v6

Notice how the apostle Paul believes that there is one God and one Lord Jesus. They are two different beings – not part of a trinity. Again we could mention here that the word “trinity” is nowhere to be found in the Bible but mainstream Christianity holds it up as a core doctrine.

ishbeli

Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:41:58 -0600

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD” Deuteronomy 6:4

“Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.” Isaiah 44:8

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: Isaiah 45:5

“Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me…” Isaiah 46:9

So from these few verses we have seen that God has not once described himself as being three in one. No where in the Old Testament, or in the whole Bible for that matter, is mentioned the word Trinity. God has only said he is one being.

ishbeli

Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:32:07 -0600

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD” Deuteronomy 6:4

“Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.” Isaiah 44:8

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: Isaiah 45:5

“Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me…” Isaiah 46:9

Lets Reason

Tue, 30 Dec 2014 18:00:34 -0600

Brother John actually muslims wouldnt want to demolish christianity but demolish the misinterpretations of the Bible, demolish trinity& crucifixion, we believe Jesus PBUH was a messenger not a God and not his begotten son, the Biblical Language used the word son for all those who believed & followed the teachings of Jesus PBUH e.g John 1:12, Romans 8:14, Genesis 6:2, Exodus 4:22
and this exactly what the revised standard version of the Bible says,that the word "begotten" in the Bible is an interpolation and a fabrication and a concoction and should be removed from the Bible.
We follow the teachings of Jesus PBUH more than the christians them selves, e.g. its mentioned in Isaiah 65:25, deuteronomy 4:8,that u shouldnt have pork, its mentioned in Ephesis 5:18 that u shouldnt drink alcohol, all muslims dont eat pork dont drink alcohol,most christians do.Jesus PBUH was circumcised on the 8th just like all muslims and unlike all christians , thts cuz u are following paul not Jesus PBUH

John

Tue, 23 Dec 2014 06:43:38 -0600

Hi
Do you really believe that falling under the umbrella of the Roman Catholic Church did us all a favour?
This doctrine was propogated by brutality and the sword.
It will take another generation of the 'information age' to rid ourselves of this abomination called the trinity.
In the meantime it remains as Christianitys 'open wound' and gives Muslims a chance to demolish Christianity.

Blessings
John

Samuel Kamau

Tue, 23 Dec 2014 06:14:10 -0600

It seems that your ministry and the Jehovah's Witnesses have a problem with the use of the word TRINITY with reference to the Godhead.My advise to is just don't use the word and as the preacher in this video says JUST BELIEVE IN GOD FATHER, SON & SPIRIT other than wasting your energy runnning round in circles. If what the preacher claims Constatine did is true it had a positive effect of bringing God's People together under the umbrella of the Roman Catholic Church. After all Christ had prayed for the unity of His Church. John 17:20-22 and I quote: 20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one". This is also proof that God the Father and the Son are ONE!

daniel

Mon, 22 Dec 2014 00:48:50 -0600

Whilst it is true that the word Trinity (Three in one) is an extra biblical definition I feel that the oneness of the three persons of the trinity is what makes any human definition very difficult to understand or even fathom as we have no human parallels to work with. The first person of the Godhead to be individually mentioned in Scripture is the Holy Spirit. Our understanding therfore of God is necessarily limited to what is revealed in the Bible only. It is clear that references to ffather, son and holy spirit all directly imply Godhead so I am comfortable that my belief in the trinity or triunity of God is the only way to express the God head. none of us can ever deeply fathom the Godhead. To be so pretentious would mean we are going too far. No need to argue about this matter ad infinitum. The Bible reveals a God who is three in one. Don´t call it a trinitarian doctrine if you don´t want to.

John

Sun, 16 Nov 2014 10:11:54 -0600

Hi Admin
Much of the 'imagery' in the synoptic gospels was designed to impress Jewish converts that what was being taught 'resonated' with Jewish teching.

At the end of thje day salvation is
(i) By GODS good grace
(ii) Requires repentance.

We are required to be 'born again' which boils down to having a new heart and living within the tenants of Mark 12 verses 29-35.

Christ came to show us THE WAY.

Every BLessing
John

admin

Sat, 15 Nov 2014 07:28:18 -0600

And what is the result of your reasoning, John? If God would make a god-man to save us, why didn't God just make god-man beings from the beginning? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

The type of person you are describing is a robot, the very thing God is not wanting to create. God wants to create sons and daughters who willingly choose only God's way.

If all it took for man not to sin from the beginning was to be conceived of the Holy Spirit, then why didn't God do that in the first place?

Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, who is and who was and who is to come, the beginning and the end. Before Abraham was, I AM.

John

Fri, 14 Nov 2014 22:08:17 -0600

Hi Admin
There is a very big difference between the words used in Exodus 3 v 14 and those which appear in John Chapter 8.

In Exodus we have 'ego eimi o on' which means 'I am the being' or 'I am the existing one'

The words used in John Chapter 8 are very commonly used words 'ego eimi' or I an the one'

You will note that in John 8 v 28 we have the same words ' When you lift up the Son of Man you willrealise that I AM and that I can do nothing of my own, but I only do what my Father taught me"

The words I AM have been capitalised for theological purposes as some scholarly bibles observe. The I AM in John 8v28 is certainly NOT YHWH!

These are indeed difficult matters !

My very best wishes.
God Bless
John.

admin

Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:02:59 -0600

Let's suffice it to say, John, that, though we may heartily agree that God is not a Trinity, we are in complete disagreement as to who or what God is.

I AM spoke to Moses and Jesus claims to be the same I AM. Your conclusion takes totally out of context Jesus' interaction with the Jews in that passage. Though Jesus purposely spoke in parables at times so people would not understand, this was not a parable. This was a "truly, truly" statement of assurance.

John

Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:32:29 -0600

Hi Admin
I note that you do not accept that Christ is a created being.
If we say that Christ is the 'first-born' then we can imply that there was a time when he 'was not'.
These are very deep matters and are best discussed in specialised fora - such as Trinities.org.
I note that your 'take 'on Philippians 2 is the 'standard' one - yet is is so clear that the verses you note are refrring to the 'second Adam' who, unlike the 'first adam' did not seek to be equal to God ( Genesis 3v5) but emptied imself (of hi human ego) and became obedient even unto death on a cross.
God Bless
John